Comics Marketing: Church vs Spurgeon On That Retailer. (It’s not as exciting as you’d think.)
25 Comments | Posted: August 27th, 2008 | Filed under: Thinking about Comics Marketing | Tags: comics retail, internet marketingTom Spurgeon had this to say about my two recent posts about That Local Retailer:
This is for the pair of you that keep e-mailing to ask if I think this material about a retailer that suggests people don’t buy certain comics is an example of backseat driving someone’s business: I suspect it is. I understand why folks might think that kind of thing worth commentary as an example of comics’ twisted values. I’m sure someone has posted “Never tell your customers not to buy something!” somewhere, and I bet someone has brought up some horror stories about being made fun of at the cash register. At the same I also think it’s pretty common in retail on a lot of levels. I’ve even had the owner of a restaurant tell me he didn’t particularly like the white fish he had in the house at the moment and I should stick to the crab cakes. It was an owner of a restaurant where my father and I ate — you guessed it — every Wednesday night. I have no idea how this retailer conducts business from day to day so I can’t testify as to how his telling people not to buy something fits within the overall tone of his establishment. To be honest, I’d rather have the retailer that told the truth about some comic he didn’t like as opposed to all the retailers I’ve had that failed to tell the truth about the availability of books I wanted.
1.
I find it odd that Tom, of all people, fails to see the difference between “good individual customer service” and “poor overall marketing practices.” Someone telling a regular customer “You know, that’s just probably not what you want to buy” is distinctly different from sending out an email to a few hundred people that says “Don’t buy this – we think it sucks.”
Tom’s example of restaurant owner telling two regular customers he wasn’t crazy about something on the menu that night is an example of the former: the owner knew Tom and his dad, knew their tastes, and knew he’d see them next week. This comics retailer was doing the equivalent of emailing his customers and saying “Wow, don’t come in and eat the white fish.” No mention of the crab cakes or anything else on the menu.
2.
And he’s sending that out there to people who may have only visited once and left their email. An email newsletter sent out to your customer base as a whole should serve one purpose: getting people into your store. I’ve never been to this retailer’s shop, but I am on their list after attending a small convention they had set up at. I’d happily ignored these emails until curiosity struck and they they sent out two emails that said “Don’t buy this comic that’s coming out” prior to the first one I posted, with the second featuring no other comics, just a long, poorly-spelled and unedited screed against the current Marvel editorial team and Amazing Spider-Man.
That doesn’t really make me want to shop there, and I buy way, way too many comic books. In a business where no small amount of readable, enjoyable material comes out every week, it’s not hard to find something you can recommend to your readers.
3.
Other people have brought up the fact that their retailers do the same thing, and mentioned some shops that have a considerable presence in the blogosphere. (Which, let’s face it, is the equivalent of having a considerable presence at the Poughkeepsie Flea Market.)
I wouldn’t shop at their stores, either. Call me weird – I don’t want or appreciate preemptive negativity in my retail interactions. Yes, that probably comes across as jargon, but this is what I do for money: I think about how businesses present themselves on the web (and in print, of late.) If a customer is reading and enjoying Amazing Spider-Man, there’s a chance than an email like the second one discussed would sour their opinion of the shop in question.
4.
Now, I’m not saying I don’t want their opinion on something, but I am saying I don’t want them telling me that they don’t like something without knowing my tastes and buying habits. There are some retailers who I solicit advice from pretty often, particularly when it comes to niches they obviously enjoy and know a lot about.
5.
A lot of people have said “Well, that means he cares about me.” No, he cares about his little clubhouse of nerds and making sure you know what they think about how things should be run at Marvel or DC. The small group of nerds who feel some sort of validation by their retailer “telling it like it is” is vastly outweighed by regular people who just want to buy some funnybooks and maybe pick up something new they’d like.
6.
Yes, the irony is apparent to me too, even if I think the term “backseat driving” is a bit much.
I’m running out of ways to say I agree with you on this, sir.
Good retailers just don’t absolutely shit on comics to THAT degree. Personally, I wouldn’t bother putting a bad review into a newsletter meant to bring people into the store; I’d review books I liked in there.
Sam Hobart (once-owner of the much-missed MacGuffin) was great about giving the “didn’t like the fish, try the crabcakes” type of guidance. If I brought up an issue he personally didn’t like, he might ask questions meant to figure out if I was prone to like it. Say with Amazing Spider-Man, he’d find out if the last time I bought it was when JMS was on it (caution me on the change to status quo) or Dan Slott’s last arc (which would then assure him I knew what I was getting).
With Sam, he would check on stuff like that because of other customers’ reactions as much as he’d check due to his own feelings.
I still miss that damn store. Best store I’ve ever been to (not best LCS, BEST STORE). I have no doubt it would have gotten an Eisner eventually.
The thing is, the first review, the X-MEN one, was fairly minor as bad decisions go, I can see people ignoring that and buying it anyway.
The AMAZING SPIDER-MAN screed is just suicidal. It’s not even treated as a matter of taste, the guy’s actually begging customers not to buy this. You get the feeling he’d try to talk anyone at the counter out of that purchase. It’s just insanity.
Didn’t we settle this weeks ago? Apparently not.
Don’t get up, Rocky! Stay down! Stay down!!!
The analogy of the restaurant doesn’t work on several levels. The restaurant owner may have received a bad batch of whitefish, at which case he was probably getting some orders sent back, and was therefore losing money on that item. I have a feeling that there are very few comic stores that would accept a 100% return on a comic that a customer read and didn’t like when he finished it.
And the analogy really falls apart if the reason for the restaurant owner’s recommendation was health or hygiene related.
No, a more accurate analogy would be entertainment-related, like movie theater clerks or video store employees telling customers that they shouldn’t buy a ticket or rent a particular movie. If I were in their shoes, I would certainly look upon anyone buying a ticket to go see Superhero Movie with some derision, but it would absolutely not be my place to serve as the arbiter of others’ tastes. And I’m sure the local theater’s cashier wondered what the fuck was up with me when I was the only person in town who bought a ticket to see The Darjeeling Limited when it was here for 5 days. However, other than needing me to reassure her that the movie was actually playing at the multiplex where she worked, she did nothing to prevent me from seeing a movie I’m sure she would not have enjoyed.
I think that to settle this once and for all, we really need to see some numbers. For instance, how did that Spidey comic sell at that specific store to those customers that did receive the email and to those who didn’t? Furthermore, did the email succeed in bringing new customers (who received and read the email) to the store or did they decide that they would never visit the store? Numbers are the answer. It does, however, seem to me that telling people not to buy something at your store is at best a fairly progressive technique to practice in an industry as shaky as this one.
I think to settle this once and for all, we need a pit, two spears, and that Star Trek fight music.
(Honestly, this is nothing that will be settled “once and for all.” It’s opinion and discussion.)
I’m curious: I know a bunch of retailers who are blogging and do reasonably serious reviews (in contrast to the ones whose worst review is “recommended for [some group]“), but are there actually all that many who do so on their store’s websites?
It’s funny. I tend to give certain stores more leeway than others. I was at a well known (and probably beloved by others) store in Boston and was purchasing a Donald Duck comic when the guy behind the counter joked, “who’s this for, your nephew?” My unspoken thought at the time was, “No, dude. It’s fucking Carl Barks.” Probably just a harmless joke, but I didn’t recognize it as that at the time and it left a bad taste in my mouth that’s never come out. At my regular store in Somerville, they could get away with that shit all day with me. I’ve been to a lot of stores where I was shocked to find that they had no idea who this or that obscure artist was. The crappy, dimly lit store in Allston that did scored points with me, not just because of their knowledge of the industry, but because I seemed to feel a certain spiritual kinship over a shared aesthetic. Meanwhile, there’s a brightly lit and well stocked store in Cambridge where I hear both praise and dismissals of various books all the time and I just can’t get comfortable there.
I had a major love/ hate relationship with a store I shopped at when I worked in Tempe, AZ. They offered a large discount for subscribers who picked up as many books as I did (so I would assume they appreciated my business), but many of the sales staff and their ever-present crew of pals had ever read DC books. They weren’t singling out a title, they were down on anything not Marvel.
I tried hard to get in and out when it was that particular crew working, and mentioned the business problem to the owner on occasion.
Damn that discount that kept me coming back. There WAS competition nearby, but they had their own problems.
I was about to transfer to all online ordering when I wound up moving back to Austin. My current LCS is incredibly well run, and seems to be doing very, very well (Austin Books).
Unsurprisingly, the store in Tempe is now closed.
If the store owner was that insistent that the customers not buy the issue, he should have taken them off the racks. What does it say about him, putting such a horrible thing on sale to the unsuspecting public? It’s just irresponsible.
But seriously, if he’s telling them not to buy it, why try to sell it at all? To feel like you’re better than the ‘suckers’ that buy it?
You are still right.
I agree that it’s bad business, but I’m still confused why those emails attract such ire. I for one don’t care how successful a business I visit is, or how wise the marketing technique is so long as it provides adequate service. And if I didn’t care for their emails, I’d request to be removed from the list. No biggie.
And in response to Patrick C, I would say that there is nothing “irresponsible” about a retailer providing an item he himself doesn’t enjoy and wouldn’t recommend, or even providing an item he actively hates. Any number of retailers hate the work of Rob Liefeld, but that doesn’t mean they stop selling them. And taking that further, possibly stupid step – sending out an email expressing their hate – doesn’t mean they’ve suddenly become comic fanatics.
Don’t forget that the restaurant analogy also fails because people commonly order one, and only one entree for dinner. Whereas, comics readers will buy somewhere between 2 and 30something books a week.
Angel, I work in marketing. I’m always interested in seeing how retailers in our space represent things. Perhaps you didn’t see the headlines or categories that say this is a thing here, but this has sort of become my thing instead of bitching about what happens inside the books.
I think you’re attaching emotions to this situation that aren’t there. I’m not ired in the slightest at this retailer or what they do: merely baffled, appalled, and amused in equal amounts.
I’m amazed there are still people who aren’t catching on to what you were saying in the original post. I caught on like that and I’m dumber’n a stick.
Good God, was my comment deleted? How offensive. I’ll take a different tack:
1: This discussion seems highly indicative that comics are for kids. Because I think most adults would say “Who Cares?” Obviously, to my detriment, not me.
2: Seriously Kevin, why do you care? The amount of righteous anger you’ve displayed over this non-issue is strange. If you have a background in marketing, I wonder why any response other than to unsubscribe and maybe shake your head in wonderment is appropriate. The amount of time you’ve spent thinking about this turns the subject from what this retailer did wrong in your opinion, to your general mood or feelings about anything. Heck, if you want to get mad about something, talk about politics or something that matters.
3: Ditto.
4: Double ditto. All these rules! And all for comics retailers, possibly the most maligned sector of the most incidental slice of the publishing industry. Who Cares?!
5: “…he cares about his little clubhouse of nerds and making sure you know what they think about how things should be run at Marvel or DC…” You’re describing yourself and all other comics/opinion/art bloggers. What is it that gives you more right to your public opinions than he has? Is it the fact that he is ostensibly a salesman and should BY GOD BE SELLING THOSE COMICS instead of telling you what he thinks about them? Whether or not he’s right or wrong to say bad stuff about comics, surely the market will reward or punish him. I find it hard to believe the market needs your help or defense.
6: In this repeat of an earlier discussion, with an equally infinitesimal impact on the real world, I find your characterization of anything as “a bit much” to be, if not ironic, then at least laughable.
Again, someone is ascribing emotions to this situation that simply aren’t there for me. I work in marketing; I write comics; I do part-time comics retail. I think about this stuff all the time, so naturally, I’d have an interest in a business that’s doing everything wrong. Me describing something something as being “goddamned stupid” is not righteous anger by any stretch, certainly not from me.
I can’t believe you’ve taken my “you know, telling people to not buy the products your selling” and turned it into me wanting to muzzle the retailer. I’m saying that emailing people in advance telling them to not buy products likely a poor business decision and an example of why comics shops are still viewed as cultish, weird places by the vast majority of people.
However, I want to point this out: if this means so little in the “real world,” then why are you leaving long, thoughtful comments on it, Dustin? Maybe it’s time for you to start your own blog.
This entire discussion would be much less stupid if geeks could think of issues in any sense other than extreme binary opposites.
I find the restaurant analogy amusing because if there had been an actual problem with the fish, the owner would have taken it off the menu and returned it for a refund (keeping a ‘bad’ product would mean the prospect of bad publicity and possible law suits from folks claiming illness).
While good wait staff should be skilled at making food suggestions to suit their customers tastes, it’s far more likely that when one product is suggested over another, it means that the business is dealing with a problem of something being under or over stocked.
I’m sort of curious now if a “don’t buy this product” campaign has ever been successful. I know that “This is too cool for the general public” works well, but that’s not quite the same thing.
Good gravy! So lame–Kevin, I AM a comics retailer, full-time, since the mid-90′s. Believe me, it’s enormously depressing to me that I feel compelled to respond to this sort of thing.
I don’t think I said anything about muzzling anyone, and the amount of anger you’ve announced loudly is pretty evident to anyone who speaks English. So let’s agree to disagree on that, because the argument will almost certainly devolve into semantics and comment-thread malarkey, with more references to “geeks” and “nerd armies” and other really smart ways to talk about anything.
But did I seriously (SRSLY!) have a comment deleted (“Holy Mackerel! Comics Aren’t Just For Kids Anymore! Biff! Bam! Pow!” is obviously too incendiary for your blog) so I could be called a “dick” in your Twitter feed? This more than anything is evidence that this conversation is worthless on every level, as is your position to comment in any meaningful way on anything other than the smell of your own stink.
What on EARTH would I want my own blog for? Goodbye.
Oh, thank you Dustin. I’ve been having a lousy day at work and needed to laugh at some self-righteousness.
Ok, Dustin. Bye.
Edited to add:
For the record, this was what I wrote on Twitter: “That was cute, but I deleted it anyway because it made you look like a dick.” It made Dustin look bad and snarky instead of being the guy who actually wrote out thoughtful responses. That’s why I deleted his comment. Now it appears I should have let it stay. I apologize, Dustin.
I think its time to leave poor [REDACTED] alone. Let him run his business the way he wants too. Although I agree it’s a stupid thing to say in a email newsletter its his prerogative, end of story. no need to bash the guys business practices on the web.
Chip, I removed the retailer’s name from your comment.