Comics Retailers In “Unable To Stop Being Fanboys” Shocker!
124 Comments | Posted: August 11th, 2008 | Filed under: Thinking about Comics Marketing | Tags: comics retailSo, somehow I got the mailing list of a retailer who’s based in the same general area as myself. His email newsletter is actually not horrible, done in HTML and very attractive, with inbound links to his website designed to get traffic up. He talks about sales, shows, and perhaps most interestingly, he reviews comics. Here’s the review of this week’s Astonishing X-Men:
This issue improves a little over the last one, but not much. The whole issue takes place at a spaceship graveyard where the X-Men are looking for a murderer. They find him. A battle ensues. A spaceship blows up and the X-Men escape, angst intact. A decent enough plot for a comic yarn, but the execution leaves much to be desired. I just don’t believe Ellis has a handle on these characters.
Throughout the issue, everyone seems to feel the need to explain how their powers are going to work, as if this were a brand new team book. Instead of Emma just telling her teammates she found the one guy not thinking in Indonesian, we get a lengthy exchange of dialogue leading to a full page revelation of “he’s up there†(at a strange angle). This was backward. They are a strike team. You give the information first.
Explanations come after if there’s time. Also, we had to be told three times that Wolverine is heavy. Why all this extra explanatory dialogue? Let’s move on to the art. Bianchi’s line work is really good. The ink washes are very stylish and the coloring reflects that. The problem is, the art isn’t serving to tell a story. I don’t know if this is the case, but it seems as if all that extra explanation thrown in the dialogue is because the art didn’t tell the story it needed to. There seems to be some poor choices in panel layout here. The fight between the bad guy and Wolverine barely makes any sense, even with the poor dialogue. For those of you needing your X-Men fix, you may want to stick with Uncanny. This new version of Astonishing doesn’t measure up to the preceding team. Not buy.
Not buy. A retailer, in his newsletter to customers, is telling people to not buy a comic book before it hits stands. He’s telling them in advance that he doesn’t think they should spend their money at his shop, on this comic. This is the stupidest goddamn thing I’ve seen lately from an industry plagued with stupid goddamn things. I don’t want my bartender telling me that I’m drinking the wrong damn thing; I don’t want the clerk at the record store giving me shit because I’m buying some motherfucking Yanni; and I don’t want the guy who’s selling me my weekly comics fix to tell me to not buy a fucking X-Men comic. Also negatively reviewed: Trinity. You know, the weekly comic series that pretty much means $150 per customer over the course of a year to a shop who sells it?
As a lot of you know, I am an Extreme Part-Time Comics Shop Employee; I work every other Sunday. It pays for my singles and, frankly, I sort of enjoy the work: I like organizing shelves, doing little sales-y displays, and chatting with people. When people buy things I don’t read or care for, do you know what I say? Nothing. If they ask me what I think, I say something like “Oh yeah, a lot of people have been talking about that, but I’ve not gotten around to it yet” or “It’s not my thing, but a lot of people like it.” It’s called basic salesmanship, and it’s something that’s really lacking in comics retail.
Whoa, agreed. Not to mention that’s way too long a review, even if it were positive, for an email newsletter. Tell me the stuff you’re getting in this week, spotlight the ones you’re excited about or are big news, in one or two sentences.
If you want to do honest comics reviews, get yourself a blog and don’t have it connected to your shop. The worst you should ever say to a customer either in person or through a newsletter connected to the store is “It’s not my cup of tea, but you might enjoy it.”
As I’d heard it said frequently but ever-truly: “We get the industry we deserve.”
Poor sales and marketing combined. That newsletter should drive people to the store, not away from it.
The best comics salesman I know once sold me on a $50 long box of comics I did not need, and then convinced me to put together a run of Malibu’s Ultraverse series Firearm in said long box.
That salesman’s name…was Chris Sims. And now you know…the rest of the story.
If you don’t have anything good to say about X-Men, then talk instead about something you were wowed by. Instead of telling people not to buy a comic, why not instead use this opportunity to push something good that you think maybe folks are overlooking.
HOW GODDAMN HARD IS IT?
It’s not brain surgery. You talk up a good, obscure title people might not otherwise buy, and then for the big name items, if you don’t think they’re great, you just say something like, “You’ll want to read this because everyone will be talking about it.”
I went to one of the major stores in Los Angeles for free comic book day – - they were so unprofessional setting up and grumpy about giving stuff away without a purchase that I don’t plan on every going back.
While I’d give my toned down opinion if asked directly, I’d certainly not go so out of my way as to fill up a newsletter with my hate for a title that I’d hopefully like to sell my copies of. There’s a fairly big Illinois retailer that does the same thing from time to time. It’s not smart business.
When I worked in a comic shop I did the same thing (as you). I wasn’t going to try and convince somebody to buy a comic-even if I thought it sucked. If people wanted an honest opinion, I just went with the “it’s just not my thing” route.
I bet he’s secretly hoping to fail as a comic retailer and move on to selling goat cheese. And he’ll tell his customers, “Well, it’s pretty good, if you like the way GOATS SMELL.”
Then he’ll move on from that to trying to sell furniture. His pitch will be, “Hey, I dunno, it’s really pretty crappy stuff. Maybe you should go to Ikea instead?”
I think the truth is that this guy hates success.
Eh, it just seems like a different brand of salesmanship. By giving negative reviews, you offer contrast to the positive ones, reinforcing them a bit more than you would in an “everything is great!” newsletter. This also projects the image of an honest man, who’ll tell you when a book is bad, unlike those other retailers… all while risking very little since you’re dissing an X-Man book, which is going to sell decently no matter what you do.
Quote: “it just seems like a different brand of salesmanship”
Mwahahahahaha!
When I worked in a bookstore, customers appreciated my harsh criticism of some books. Then, they trusted my evaluation of other books much more strongly.
If the two work in tandem, I think it’s a way to build loyalty.
I once lived in a town with a used CD/video game place in the downtown district, run by 20-somethings trying to create someplace urban and edgy. It divided its music into categories including rock, pop, country, alternative…and something like “losers”, a table of CDs that the owners decided were pure crap. Buying the Gin Blossoms’ “New Miserable Experience” from that table was one of the most uncomfortable shopping experiences I’ve ever had, even 11 years on. So put me down on the side of “Wow, that’s stupid.”
How unusual to see someone viciously attacked for not being a liar.
Surely you know he’s not the only one: http://savagecritic.com/
Slippery slope here, blogosphere, tread carefully!
/joe
Nobody’s saying the guy should lie. As a retailer and marketer your job is to get people to buy things. If you think that the latest X-Men isn’t something you can encourage people to buy, then talk up something else you think they should go for. People reading these newsletters aren’t looking for things NOT to buy, they’re looking for good reads.
I would’ve just been quiet about the issue.
I highly doubt that his position on the book would sway anyone. If I have issues 1-25, I’m nearly 100% likely to purchase issue 26. If I don’t have issue 1-25, I’m nearly 100% likely to not start a run on issue 26. There are sucky issues in every run. But I’m not about to start making holes in my collection or not buy a new issue because some schmuck behind the counter says it’s no good.
I think it’s worth noting that Savage Critic seems to have gained a clear separation from Comix Experience, at least enough of one to make it a more “independent” source–when I read Brian Hibbs there, I don’t think of him necessarily as Brian the Comic Shop Owner; I think of him as a comics fan sharing his opinions on titles and retailing.
An e-mail newsletter is a marketing piece. Marketing’s goal is to sell shit. End of story. If you don’t like a book, review one you do like.
Apparently some retailers hate money.
Apparently some comic fans see nothing wrong with retailers who act like fanboys rather than business people.
We get the comics industry we deserve.
I think I fit into a similar mold as this retailer, although I’m sure our opinions differ on most stuff. But I also occasionally publish negative reviews, not only on my site/blog, but in my weekly html newsletter. I’d rather talk about something I like, but occasionally myself or our staff will feel compelled to point out that something is stinky. We’re pretty hands-on with our customers, and take pride in having our opinions and recommendations trusted by them. I only very rarely would EVER tell a customer not to buy something already in their hands, but I agree that the occasional negative review builds credibility. Otherwise you’re just shilling comic books–besides trying to drive sales, with these blogs and newsletters and other online marketing, you’re as much trying to build an audience. I think of this as positive salesmanship in the long run. Besides just making money TODAY, I want my customers to be happy with their purchases. If someone read and loved Watchmen and Year One, and then picked up Spawn, I would almost certainly suggest to them that they were headed in the wrong direction.
–Dustin Harbin
Heroes Aren’t Hard To Find
http://www.heroesonline.com
All I can say is business must be booming if these retailers feel like they can discourage potential customers from buying comics the retailer doesn’t like.
I think it all depends on how such a negative recommendation is couched.
If, for example, you’re doing the equivalent of telling someone, “What are you, a PUSSY?†for ordering a wine cooler, then, yes, You’re Doing It Wrong.
If, on the other hand, you’re gently steering someone away from biting into a steaming shit sandwich, without mocking their taste or insisting that they subscribe to your viewpoint, but instead, simply by saying, “Look, you might not care for this,†then, contrary to Kevin’s view, I think you can actually generate more revenue in the long run.
After all, if a bad purchase leads a customer to feel like they can’t trust you, they’re going to be less likely to buy from you in the future – Marvel and DC, take note.
There’s a distinct difference between that and slapping Not buy on a post-it on the book so they saw it first thing when looking on the shelves, isn’t there? My point here is that the stuff some readers enjoy is going to sell to them, even if you tell people to not do it, and telling people to not buy something instead of picking a title that’s underperforming from the hundred other books in any given week to talk up is counterintuitive and creates a negative atmosphere. Retailers shouldn’t try to not sell me stuff in advance; they should try to sell me me new stuff I might enjoy more.
You can generate more revenue by emailing people and telling them to not buy something in advance. Got it.
Wow, if these retailers feel THIS strongly about crappy works, why do they even carry them? Oh, right, because there are SOME people who like them, like them a lot.
Making them feel small for liking what they like is an awesome business strategy.
Well, there’s a right and a wrong way to do this. The wrong way is to belittle the customer and mock their poor taste in comics. But a retailer you can trust, who’s willing to honestly say, “hey, don’t waste your money on that,” and (hopefully) offer a better alternative? They’d earn my business, and if I agree with their tastes, I might be more inclined to take their word on comics I’d never even heard of.
You seem very passionate about this. I would humbly suggest that, as our good friend Arnold Jackson may have said, it takes different strokes to move the world.
I’ll give you that just flat out stating that someone should not buy something in an e-mail newsletter is a little dodgy, and doesn’t leave a reader who may have LOVED that issue of Astonishing–or at least been looking forward to it–a lot of room for their own opinion. But with moderation I still think that a good retailer can say “I didn’t like this” without smearing or belittling their customer. Although I’ve certainly been guilty of this in the past, it’s something I really work hard to avoid doing. Again, all I care about is a) getting PAID!, and b) having happy customers. In the long run, whatever gets both of those done is the right way to retail in my book.
I see “Staff Recommended” stickers in shops. I’ve NEVER seen “Staff Says Don’t Buy This” stickers. If you’re a retailer, you’re in it for money. I don’t think you can afford to tell people not to buy certain items of your stock, even on a one-to-one basis. It’s a shop, not a gallery that reflects someone’s taste. That one customer you advise not to buy a comic might go and tell five of your other customers not to buy it either. Better to spin things positively (“I think you’d like THIS”) than talk negatively about anything you are trying to convince people to purchase.
Very funny. Well, If retailers are going to recommend titles they should certainly be candid about titles they don’t like. That said, I don’t think I’d tell a customer not to buy something, although I would certainly be frank in telling them if I didn’t like something and why I don’t like it. I think consumers can decide for themselves what they want to buy but I also believe that comparing opinions about comics is what this business is all about.
No, they should be in the business of selling comics, not running an Algonquin Round Table of comics commentary. Otherwise, these retailers would just stay at home and run a comics bulletin board, no? If someone solicits an opinion from an employee, that’s one thing, but sending out an email with a review telling people Don’t buy is something very different.
I’m with you, Kevin. I was a comic shop manager for a couple years after college, and the MOST negative thing you should ever tell a customer about a book is, “It’s not really my kinda thing.” Comic shops are rarely run by people who have a well-rounded sense of basic salesmanship, the comics industry, and major superhero continuity. You have to have all three to be a good comic shop guy.
People always seem so gosh-darned UPSET on the Internet. If only Al Gore had known…
What does that have to do with any of the discussion here? I think everybody’s been civil and polite, especially as I described the actions of the retailer in question as being goddamned stupid.
(And if you want to see people getting really upset over nothing, then have I got a site for you…)
You know, I’m not sure I agree with the thesis. Certainly telling people -not- to buy something is counter-productive, but I have to at least give him credit for being up front about it.
It’s probably a different situation (in part because one industry is floundering and the other is flourishing), but when I’m working at GameStop and someone asks me my opinion on a game, I tell them honestly. If the game is bad, I tell them so. Certainly there’s a right and a wrong way to do this; if I’m telling the customer a game is horrible without at least pointing them in the direction of a game that they may like better, I’m failing as a salesperson. And obviously, you have to have some tact. (i.e., “You know, I played that game and I wasn’t impressed. Maybe this will suit you better?”)
I think there’s room for that in comics retail, as well. If one is looking for an X-Men book and asks if a certain one is okay, I feel like it’s alright for the clerk to recommend a different one and from there it’s up to the customer.
Again, these are two different markets so perhaps there are vastly different approaches to selling the product. But when you get right down to it it’s all kind of the same, isn’t it?
-M
Maybe I should try an experiment at the store tomorrow…I’ll stand by the comic rack and tell every customer who walks up: “Hey, that new issue of Astonishing X-Men? I didn’t like it. Don’t buy it.” Saves me the trouble of sending out a bulk e-mail. And surely that won’t negatively impact sales, or diminish the good will of that portion of my customer base that does like Astonishing X-Men.
Matt, do you own that GameStop?
Which is not at all what happened here: a mass email to the customer base is not having an individual walk up to you and ask for your opinion on a title. Personally, I lean towards the “I’d prefer not to alienate the customer by possibly insulting something they enjoy” school of thought.
(Interesting sidenote and probably a potential post on my part: when buying games in a store, you can’t open up and flip through them or play a few levels before deciding to buy. You may have read a few reviews or even checked out online videos, but that’s not the same as actually picking something up off the shelf and being able to look inside. Comics give the customer a lot more of a pre-sale chance to evaluate the material in the shop, which means that they have a firmer grasp on their potential purchase. Factoring in the serial nature of the big two and the loyalties of that base, I think a comics retailer risks a good deal more by giving a title a negative review.)
Not to mention that the retail structure has sweet fuck-all to do with video games’ success. People continuing to go to GameStop indicates folks will put up with pretty much anything to get their hands on a game; that situation doesn’t translate to comic book shops at all.
Thanks for the “blanket broadcast does not equal one-on-one personalized service” follow-up, Kevin. It was puzzling me why folks were conflating the two, since they’re obviously not the same thing.
By using the phrase “stupidest goddamn thing” I don’t know if you’re trying to purposely provoke a reaction among your readers or if you actually believe.
The very fact that someone is a comic book retailer probably means that the person has chosen passion over money. It’s a difficult business and if this retailer has survived more than 5 years doing things his way [and I don't know how long the store has been around], I think deserves some respect and credit, at least enough so that his actions aren’t labeled as “stupidest goddamn thing”.
Then again, he could be a complete idiot squandering his money.
The Iraq War has lasted over 5 years, and that’s a pretty stupid goddamn thing.
I don’t think it was the stupidest goddamn thing he could have done. He’s reviewing. His newsletter, his opinion. I have my own, so does everyone else.
The stupidest goddamn thing he could do is tell you, when you are in his store, not to buy it.
Then again, if I want the comic, I could care less about reviews and opinions. If the comic I want is pink and lacy and shoots glitter and is drawn by a blind 5 year-old with hiccups and written by my dog, I’m going to buy it regardless.
Actually, the stupidest goddamn thing he’s done is start a comic book store. Achchachachachachacha! Cha! Cha?
Awww, never mind.
That’s a very simple-minded way of looking at it.
Stan Lee never met a Marvel comic that wasn’t stupendously great.
I stopped listening to Stan Lee 20 years ago. If he said it was light outside, I’d go to the window to check.
It’s not about the individual sale, or the individual product. It’s about establishing a credibility with your customer, so they believe you when you say, “This is a good graphic novel.” It’s about establishing a relationship of trust.
Is this any good? They ask.
Fantastic! you say.
How about this?
Great!
And this?
Best thing I ever read!
And if they go home and it’s a piece of crap, they’ll not only not believe you, but they may never come back.
Imagine instead, this,
How’s this?
It’s O.K., but this one over here is even better.
Or.
Should I get this?
Lot’s of people like it, but my favorite is this comic.
You’re showing faith in the artform and the industry to be able to pan a comic. You’re saying, I feel secure enough about the quality of what I sell to be able to tell you if something isn’t good.
Always with the caveat, “in my opinion.”
But you want to create an atmosphere in your store that rewards good work. You want the customer to feel like he can ask your honest opinion, and you’ll give it.
Giving a negative review may have the reverse effect of making them buy something else, instead of nothing at all. It’s actually a good marketing tool, sometimes, believe it or not.
Phrank:
Let me get this straight. Telling a person one-on-one not to buy something is the stupidest thing possible.
Blanketing your entire customer base with a “not buy,” on the other hand, is not stupid.
We all have our opinions. We are not all putting them in PR newsletters designed to SELL PRODUCT. What about this is hard to grasp?
Duncan, did you actually read the post? You’re turning a mass email to the customer base telling people to not buy something into a one-on-one sales experience, which is not what happened. Amazon doesn’t give me books to not buy in the marketing messages I get from them – why should a comic book shop do the opposite?
Even in a newsletter, it’s important to have credibility. As well as entertainment value — you want them to come back, and maybe a negative review can do that. Should be seeded with recommendations for good product, though.
In my bookstore blog, I review every novel I read. Good, bad, or indifferent. I want people coming back to read my blog, to remind them of my store, the remind them that I carry many other novels, good, bad or indifferent. Selling that particular book isn’t the real point of the exercise.
Talking about books, is. Enjoying reading, and saying why I didn’t enjoy a certain book, is not a contradiction. It’s proof that I enjoy reading enough that I’ll try another and another book until I do find that really good book and tell you all about it.
I understand credibility and its importance, but I really do not see how trashing an X-Men comic book gains that from anybody but the people who already don’t like it, who weren’t going to like it anyway. Maybe I’m just too darn positive to work in marketing.
Oh, wait a minute…
I think customers appreciate an honest tone, they find it refreshing. I suppose if you really hate all comics and express that, then you’ve got a problem.
But if you love comics, and find one you don’t like, and express that…they’ll try something else. And believe you the next time, too.
Well said, Duncan. Kevin, I think what may rankle about your initial post and some of your follow-ups here in the comments is the implication that you know best how retailers should sell their product. As has been pointed out elsewhere, retailing comics is a weird animal, and not many comics retailers are getting rich doing it. Those of us that do it out of love for comics–and the occasional paycheck–often find our own methods and styles of dealing with customers and marketing our books.
I’m not sure it’s fair to compare this one guy and his e-mail newsletter, in which he unfavorably reviews a “big” title, to Amazon’s recommendations. But if you were going to, I’d point out that (speaking as a frequent Amazon customer) I regularly DO NOT purchase things there because of the vociferous reviews of other customers. This is one of the main reasons I buy stuff on Amazon, from pots and pans to my camera to CD’s, etc–because I have benefitted greatly from the occasional steer-clear from other customers, a service provided by Amazon itself.
I know this is your blog, and on your blog your opinion is king, but I would humbly suggest that there a lot of different ways to make this stew taste good. It helps to remember that most of the chefs aren’t making a lot of money, and are trying their best to serve their customers as best they know how.
See, Kevin, that’s why you’re wrong wrong wrong.
The ONLY way to gain credibility is to trash a product people like. You can’t talk up a FirstSecond or Oni book that your customers never heard of. You have to take down one of Marvel’s biggest titles. That way, your customers know you’re not a shill, and can believe you when you recommend… um…
Step three: Profit!
You’re making my point for me. Those reviews were generated by customers, not by Amazon employees. Amazon can choose to merely stock and sell books based on other sales patterns and not give them any particular focus or attention.
“Step three: Profit!”
Well, I’m in my 28th and most profitable year.
Without pandering. I like, I don’t like. I’ll tell you.
I’m pretty sure my customers wouldn’t like it if all I did was hype stuff. Nothing but sugar. A little spice just makes it taste better.
So, Duncan, you’d tell people to not buy The DaVinci Code then? You’ve done that? You’ve slapped a big DON’T BUY on it on your blog?
Books and comics aren’t the same marketplace – comics come out on a weekly basis, have a smaller per-unit margin, and aren’t returnable. Comics retailers can chose to pan a title, but they’re also likely to to be panning the next year or so on that title and turning down money that could be coming in for the next year.
Amazon is also one of the largest retailers in the world, so comparing it to some dealer writing a newsletter is hardly scientific. That retailer is probably also the guy who opens the boxes on Wednesday morning, takes his customers special orders, remembers birthdays and which statue your girlfriend needs to buy you to complete your set, etc. He may not have your experience retailing comic books, and almost certainly does not have your experience reviewing comics.
But I reject the idea that a retailer can’t have an opinion and share it with his customers, in whatever format he chooses. If people don’t like it, they’ll vote with their dollars, and he’ll survive or fold based on what his customers think of the way he does business. Natural selection.
I suggest you unsubscribe from his newsletter, though.
Interesting example. I thought The DaVinci Code sucked. Didn’t seem to stop it from selling….
What I tend to do is review a bunch of comic titles at a time, just like I read them.
I already know what comics and authors and artists I like, usually, so the review is more likely to be positive than negative, because of the culling process.
But after that, yes, I call it as I see it. I tend to see good things in almost all books, movies and comics, so even a negative review will hold out hope.
But, yes. What counts is that you are covering the hobby honestly. That you are entertaining. That you are showing you know your stuff, and have the credibility to be a good source.
My Ken friend, don’t talk to me like I’m stupid. I am not having a hard time “grasping” your view or Church’s view or anyone’s view.
I understand it completely. I just do not agree with it or think it’s correct.
You are looking at it from a view point of grab every penny from the customer. Personally, I doubt that people get into comics for the money. Selling or making or any aspect of it other than movies.
If he doesn’t like the comic, what do I care? He’s going to buy a box of them because there are many who do.
He wants to say it’s not worth purchasing in his newsletter, that’s fine. He can solicit his opinion. But I don’t need some guy behind the desk telling me to my face he doesn’t care for what I am purchasing. That right there would ensure there would be nothing purchased in that store by me.
If I ask you as an owner or employee, “How is this book?” and you don’t like it, but get me to buy it by saying otherwise, I am trusting your opinion of it and being duped.
If I like it, I keep it and buy more.
If I don’t I come back to the store and give it back to you and ask for my money back so I could buy something else I would like better
I don’t appreciate people using used car salesman tactics to get me to purchase something just so they can get a couple of extra bucks.
When it comes to buying something, my desrire of it overides everyone else’s opinion of it.
Again: you asking a retailer their opinion and their giving it to you is very fucking different from that person sending you an email saying “Wow, don’t get Ghost Rider this week, even if you’re a fan of ol’ Skullface! What a stinker!” a week before the book comes out.
(Also, use the BLOCKQUOTE tag to quote other readers. For some reason, Wordpress and this template do something to goof up the citing the way you like, Dustin.)
The web is full of store sites that do nothing but pimp product relentlessly. I don’t read any of them.
But I do read Savage Critics, for enlightenment and entertainment, and Oh, yeah, that Brian Hibbs guy owns a store and maybe I should check it out the next time I’m in San Fransisco.
So… let me get this straight, Kevin. Your solution is for retailers to lie about which comics are good and which aren’t? Your solution is for retailers to promote the hell out of mindless crap like Trinity? Your solution is for retailers to hype each and every stupid, badly-written and poorly-drawn comic book? I hate to break this to you, dude, but that’s not the way it works. And if you think that the comics industry will be saved by retailers hyping and promoting all the worthless pieces of paper-waste Marvel and DC are producing, I think you’re on drugs. (Can I have some, please?) Personally, I seriously hope your “solution” doesn’t catch on and become reality. But if it does, I better not see your sorry ass complaining about the poor average quality of mainstream comics then. Sheesh…
Kevin: it’s too late — the nerd-mind has decided to frame your argument in the context of “retailers should NEVER express opinions ever,” and not the actual argument of “retailers shouldn’t tell all their customers, indiscriminately, to ‘NOT BUY’ a comic in THEIR OWN FUCKING MARKETING E-MAIL.”
To be honest, Mike, it appears that some parts of the nerd hive-mind have decided that Kevin’s argument is “retailers should lie to their customers about whether a comic is good or not” which is an interesting example of either sub-literacy on the internet or the remarkable ability of nerds to twist someone’s actual statements into a provocation.
Dimitris – Of all the “missing the point” comments here, yours is the “missing the point-est.” Trying reading what Kevin actually wrote next time.
I don’t think anyone has suggested lying about the quality of comics. People are saying that retailers should not hamstring themselves by going out of their way to trash-talk the very products they’re trying to sell. I don’t get circulars from Best Buy saying “Holy crap, this new monitor sucks! Don’t even bother coming in to buy one!”
I have to admit, the “Not Buy” at the end was pretty stupid. The review was O.K. though. The reader could read that review and still decide to buy it.
Just last week I had a customer ask if I liked a certain book, I admitted I didn’t, told him why, told him that it was probably just me because I didn’t feel like fighting the archaic language.
And he bought it.
Good for him. I don’t feel like I have an exclusive on taste and truth. But I do know what I like.
Thanks for the clue on the blockquoting, Kevin (hopefully I’ve done it correctly.
There’s way too much swearing in ALL CAPS and bold in this conversation. It makes the idea of discussing whether or not a retailer (that most heinous of monsters) poo-pooing a book in their e-mails somewhat academic, in terms of propriety, etiquette, or just plain old smarts. I’m going to go back to retailing, instead of talking about retailing.
Sorry Mike, but I’m quite certain I got Kevin’s point fairly alright, thank you. I think Kevin is the one who misses the point here, making waaaaayyyy too much out of the simple fact of a retailer writing reviews in a newsletter. But Kevin is your pal, so it’s quite logical that you’d give him your unconditional support :p And to be honest, I’m really enjoying all the “nerd” comments that followed. Typical. Whenever someone offers a differing opinion, you throw the “nerd card”. What’s next, “nazis”? And Kitty, comparing art (commercial though it might be) to monitors sold in BestBuy! Talk about your problematic analogies…
Retail is retail, and people need to make the rent/mortgage. The man is running a shop, not a gallery or a library, and his first priority is (or should be) to make sales. But he’s putting out a newsletter that explicitly discourages those sales. It doesn’t make sense to me.
The whole “nerd-mind” and “fanboy” aspect of this is interesting to me. I’ve tried to approach this as a business, and in fact only started reading comics after I bought the store. I made a deal with myself early on that I would only read comics I enjoyed, that I would be honest about what I liked and didn’t like, but wouldn’t go out of my way to enforce my opinions on others.
I especially don’t like to impose my views on others and say they’re wrong to like something. I have too vivid a memory of being put down for liking my science fiction and fantasy books.
But if I’m going to have a blog discussing comics, I’m going to discuss them honestly and forthrightly, and trust that comics are strong enough to keep selling.
I carry comics that I don’t like and sell very well.
I carry comics that I like and don’t sell very well.
I think this hobby will grow up when it doesn’t do either the WORST COMIC EVER! thing or the Stan Lee “EXCELSIOR!” thing.
Dustin – Apologies for the swearing; few things make me angry, and other people’s deliberate obtuseness is one of them.
Dimitris – Please answer this question, which relates to the ACTUAL POINT of Kevin’s post, and not…whatever it is you’re inventing in your responses:
Yes or no: do you think it’s a good idea for a retailer to tell customers in a mass mailing that they shouldn’t buy a forthcoming comic that retailer is presumably carrying?
The Iraq War has lasted over 5 years, and that’s a pretty stupid goddamn thing.
Do you think this guy will put up a “Mission Accomplished” banner when his comic store goes out of business?
There’s way too much swearing in ALL CAPS and bold in this conversation.
That’s how I like to imagine Mike when I’m reading Progressive Ruin — loud, bold and vulgar.
And sexy. Always sexy.
I think when an idea expressed is so basic (example: ‘The sky is blue’, ‘Promoting a book by telling people not to buy it is self-defeating’, etc.), sometimes the reader has to make up stuff in order to give them something to do besides nod along. I say this arguement involves pandas and YOU ARE WRONG, MR. CHURCH!
I think the point is that there is a big conflict of interest that comes up when the critic of the work is also the person trying to sell you the work. If the critic overhypes a book just to sell me, then he loses credibility as a critic. If he trashes a book he is trying to sell me, he loses credibility as a salesman/marketer.
The key is you have to separate the two hats – the marketer and the critic. This guy didn’t do that. The email is a marketing tool. This guy used his marketing tool as an avenue to provide a critical review of a book he didn’t like. He wins as a critic and builds credibility there, but loses as a marketer – right, wrong, or indifferent.
“I think Kevin is the one who misses the point here, making waaaaayyyy too much out of the simple fact of a retailer writing reviews in a newsletter.”
It’s not the simple fact of a retailer writing reviews in a newsletter….that’s one thing. It’s a retailer writing a damning review, which could in turn hurt their sales, which would (rightly) strike some people as counterintuitive. That’s understandable. Being brutally honest to customers is also very understandable, but does a retailer really need to BROADCAST what they don’t care for at the risk of hurting sales? If a customer asks them point blank, they should give an honest assesment of a book. And God forbid anybody take into consideration the differing tastes in various customers……
And reading this string of comments, one starts to come up with some novel theories about why they haven’t.
It’s really not that difficult. Review? Fine. Negative review which explains why said review is negative? Fine. It’s those two little words–”don’t buy”–that are the problem. Presumably, the retailer ordered this book and, given that it’s a mainstream superhero book, probably ordered it fairly heavily. Now, he’s telling people not to buy this thing that he bought under non-returnable conditions.
But, man, isn’t it awesome that he’s just a fan like us? Fans are awesome.
If the final comment was something like “not recommended”, fine. But saying “not buy” really does seem counter-productive if your goal is to make money from people buying things.
I’m very befuddled as to why people can’t understand this.
Well, yeah. My comment was really more towards how I interpreted the overall tone of the post rather than the process through which this particular retailer chose to provide his opinion; somehow I missed the last part of that second-to-last sentence (“…or “It’s not my thing, but a lot of people like it.”") and, losing that, thought that you indicated your preference was deflection as opposed to conversation. My apologies, Kevin.
I’m having a hard time understanding why negative reviews automagically equal credibility. And why positive recommendations are assumed to be “shilling.” AND why some fans seem to need their retailer to be a trusted pal, instead of just the nice guy/gal who sells them comics.
Wow, this baby has really grown. I don’t know whether to congratulate you or not Kevin.
In the cited context, you’re absolutely right of course. “Not buy” is a ridiculous rating for a retailer to put on a product. I’d have gone with something a little more cheeky myself. Something that could be taken with humor and not insult customers who are fans of said product. Anyway Buy/Not Buy seems incredibly narrow a system.
They would be better off creating personae for each store employee and listing the reviews as Mark’s Picks, John’s Picks, Martha’s Picks, etc. John loves the indies, Mark likes the mutant pablum, Martha’s more middle of the road. Create some kind of identifier for any possible customer (“I’m a Martha guy myself!”)
Oh yeah, and my own retailer’s opinion horror story: I ordered (as I always ordered) some new James Kochalka books. Clerk flips through them as he’s ringing them in and tells me a child could draw better comics. I stopped going to that store.
I got into comics properly a couple of years back and at the start was buying early 90s x-men out of nostalgia. They were fairly crap, but if someone at the shop started telling me “hey, you don’t want these, try these!”, well, there are three comic shops within walking distance in central London and I’d have gone to another one. I bought some pretty crappy comics, but I realised they were crappy comics myself and, miracle of miracles, I still visit and spend money in comic shops (only on better comics)
The best kind of recommendations are “If you like this, try this” rather than “you should be liking this, not this”, because what happens to the customer who still wants to buy a comic after apparently being ordered not to buy it?
I read reviews online, and I’ll sometimes buy a comic I know I like that has gotten unfavourable reviews, but I don’t have to look the people who’ve reviewed it in the eye as I buy it, and the people in the comic stores I go to know better than to send me an e-mail containing quite a nitpicky review of a comic that I’m actually going to buy, instead just sticking to “these are the new comics!” and “we’ve got a signing! this is exciting!”
As the one person on the internet who hasn’t popped into this thread yet, I just wanted to say hi.
Also, while Church may be a mean drunk and a distributor of poisoned milk to school children (who, admittedly, probably had it coming), he’s not even remotely wrong here. I work in the library at a business school, and I’m pretty sure they cover “please don’t tell people to actively avoid buying something you want to sell them” on the first day.
This is the sort of shit that drives people to sites like DCBS everyday. It sure did in my case.
Whenever we biffed and over-ordered a book, we’d put up a shelf talker that read “This is the worst comic published this week. Possibly ever. Please buy two.” It worked about half the time.
*hand of fate descends*
(*all following is tongue in cheek, natch* – I concede fully that I am not a store proprietor, and have ZERO financial interest in the result. However, so far the argument seems ummn (truly, forgive my personal naivety – simplistic?!)
… Well, like many things in life, it’s a gamble, yes? This retailer has (I presume, and it’s not without the realms of possibility that he NEVER EVER thought it through in these terms) assumed that by being honest with his opinion he would not sell IN THE SHORT TERM some copies of a majorly successful series (deserving or not); however by doing so he assumes that the payoff – in THE LONG TERM he *may* have increased customer loyalty, credibility, whatever – I find it curious that so far no one is prepared to accept this as a legitimate business strategy. I can accept that it’s risky; that’s it’s counter-intuitive; and even, yes, that it may be just plain DUMB. But without knowing the customer base, we are all just assuming.
Aren’t we?
What this guy is doing is indubitably idiotic. For himself. What he is obviously trying to do, and what many others have pointed out in this thread, is being a champion for the betterment of the state of the comic book industry. By taking a firm stand against a title that he feels is crap, he expects it not to sell and to, in the end, send a clear message to the higher-ups at Marvel/DC that says to stop publishing shit. The only problem with that is that he’s doing it against his own betterment. He is trying to cripple the very industry that is carrying his own bank account. Yes, Marvel and DC publish crap titles. And yes, that’s very bad. But sometimes they sell a shitload of these crap titles. And part of that money ends up in the hands of the retailers. If the guy we’re talking about in this post was to, one day, hypothetically, for a reason that I can’t even begin to fathom, get what he demands and make Marvel and DC publish only top-tier titles, what would happen? They’d each publish 30 titles a month. And they’re big publishers, so just imagine where that leaves the smaller ones. The guy wouldn’t even have enough cashflow to pay for his lunch.
The point I’m trying to make is that it’s a business. And whether you like it or not, it’s not quality that drives a business. It’s only part of the equation, an equation which has $ on the other side of the equal sign. Hollywood never stopped making crappy movies, publishers haven’t stopped publishing crappy books, and comic publishers sure as hell aren’t going to stop publishing crappy comics. So the only thing that guy can do? Work in his own favor and try to scrape a few bucks more by not slapping “Not buy” at the end of a review.
Notwithstanding the fact that when people read reviews they almost immediately skip to the last line of it. And that it’s often the ONLY line they read. Sigh…
As a side note, if he really didn’t want people not to buy the comic, he should just not order it. Take a stand by showing Marvel what he means with HIS dollars. He would end up better for it, and it might actually change a thing. Because it’s not in the retailer-customer exchange that it happens. It’s in the retailer-publisher exchange. Marvel doesn’t lose when this guy is stuck with 10 copies of AXM on his shelf, they’ve already sold them to him! They have their money. He’s the one with a loss. By deciding to boycott AXM, he’d still have that money he DIDN’T pay for these issues, and Marvel would be at a loss because they’d have 10 printed copies not sold on their hands. Not that it would change anything, mind you, but it would make the guy look a bit more intelligent. Just a bit.
Y’know what? I was re-reading and make that 10 titles a month.
Where did Dimitris go? I was having fun watching him get defensive and back himself into a corner. BTW, is there a website attached to this newsletter? I want to point and laugh…
As a retailer, this has mystified me as well. We’re all about ‘accentuating the positive, eliminating the negative’. One-on-one we’d be candid with customers, but then we have the opportunity to tailor our opinions with their tastes (“you might not like X, but have you tried Y?”). We practice “don’t ask don’t tell”, if the customer doesn’t ask us for our opinions, we don’t offer them. Telling your entire mailing list *not* to buy something? That’s just crazy.
(Matt, by the way, runs Comicopia, one of the best comic shops I’ve ever been to.)
If I go into a TV store and they have a sign up saying “don’t buy this TV”, then they’re stupid. I don’t see why a marketing newsletter designed to *sell* things isn’t similarly stupid for saying “not buy” just because it’s related to comics.
Unless comics get a free pass where stupidity is concerned of course, but I’d like to think that wasn’t the case…
I don’t understand why anyone is debating Kevin on this. His thesis is extremely straightforward: It’s stupid for a retailer to order books he intends people to purchase, then actively urge them not to do so. It’s counter-productive. Integrity is all fine and dandy, but if a retailer plans to pay his mortgage and other bills, he might want to actually encourage people to BUY his offerings. The last time I checked, mortgage and credit-card companies don’t accept excess copies of The X-Men as payment. The fact that there’s even a debate going on about this is mindboggling.
There is an interesting discussion to be had here about whether having negative reviews on a store blog or newsletter, or in store, is a good idea, whether it’s useful or not.
If the concrete example of “Don’t buy,” is all we are talking about, then, yeah, by all means, that’s pretty stupid.
But why do we need to be so literal minded? Kevin does include the rest of the review, which I thought wasn’t overboard at all.
In my Pegasus Blog today I sort of pan a book by David Feintuch, called Prisoner’s Hope. But I also use it as an opportunity to tell people how much I love the Lois McMasters Bujold’s series about Miles Vorgosigan.
I carry the Bujold series, I don’t carry the Feintuch series.
It’s a tool. It’s immediate because I just finished reading it. To talk about books and comics and movies.
Kevin’s original post was spot on.
I had a customer ask me once if the music store I worked in ever made fun of people for buying Celine Dion (since we were a small indie record store) or other mainstream artists like her. I said we would never do that.
Did we stock Celine? Yes. Did I like her music? No. We stocked her cds so that people who liked it could buy it so that we could stay in business. Taste is one thing and business is business.
“Making fun of”, and giving an honest opinion, are two different things. Did you say you liked Celine when asked? Or did you say, it’s not what I like, but others do.
I’ve always assumed I’m talking to other readers, with their own tastes and I’ve never assumed that I’m so important that my review will dissuade everyone.
I see it as simply one person talking to another about his or her likes or dislikes. The beginning of the discussion, if you will, not the end. A demonstration that I like books and comics, but not all of them because I have some discrimination, just like I assume you do.
Its really funny because somehow I managed to find myself on the same list. When I received the email I immediately laughed at the first line stating “My store sucks and I’m remodeling it” not because it began negative off the bat but because it wasn’t “my store sucks SO i’m remodeling it,” he’s basically telling everyone it sucks and just happens to be pumping more money into something that sucks, I dunno found it funny I guess.
Secondly I read the exact same review but I had no problem with his not buy because if he doesn’t want people to buy a comic he’s going to be stocking (stupidly as it sounds) it’s his prerogative- my problem with it however that his review tells me pretty much everything that happens in the friggin comic, before it even hit the stands and had a chance to read it myself. I have a huge problem with that kind of thing on the internet these days, I have hobbies and some of my hobbies have nice little surprises such as an ongoing story narrative that I get to read to be taken somewhere outside my everyday life – do I need someone spoiling such a thing for me? No, not really. I mean the review was A. too long, 4 sentences will do really and B. too informative- if you want to review something like a story that hasn’t be released yet don’t give me a friggin page by page breakdown, say you didn’t like it for reasons like the team doesn’t act like the strike team it should at times, not a paragraph describing the exact way the team interacts and what one person says to another- I don’t need an example to understand the point your trying to make. Reviews are opinions, not facts needing to be backed with proof.
Alright I vented a little too much. I’ll leave it at that.
And the people who “missed the point” as Mike said…will probably miss it further when this thread hits Get off the Internet.
“Dangit…I screwed that all up. I was responding to:
So… let me get this straight, Kevin. Your solution is for retailers to lie about which comics are good and which aren’t? Your solution is for retailers to promote the hell out of mindless crap like Trinity? Your solution is for retailers to hype each and every stupid, badly-written and poorly-drawn comic book?”
Mikester wrote:
Dimitris – Please answer this question, which relates to the ACTUAL POINT of Kevin’s post, and not…whatever it is you’re inventing in your responses:
Yes or no: do you think it’s a good idea for a retailer to tell customers in a mass mailing that they shouldn’t buy a forthcoming comic that retailer is presumably carrying?
Mike, I’m sorry but this is not a “yes or no” question. It’s way more complex than that, really. But if you want a short and concise answer to whether it is a good idea or not, I’d say it’s pretty much irrelevant. The people receiving this newsletter are going to buy whatever the hell they want, regardless if what some retailer will write in a review…
Good enough for ya?
And, please, compose yourself, man. I’m not “inventing” anything. Stop trying to find conspiracies and enemies in places where there are only differing opinions and nothing more…
McSheffrey wrote:
“Where did Dimitris go? I was having fun watching him get defensive and back himself into a corner.”
For your information Dimitris is on a different timezone (Dimitris lives in Greece, you see) and he also has to work for a living.
Please forgive him for not being glued to a chair and tied to his keyboard 24/7…
Now, do you have anything of substance to add to this discussion, or are you just going to keep making an ass of yourself talking about things you obviously know nothing about?
I’ll stick with being an ass since it’s worked so well for you.
Mike, I’m sorry but this is not a “yes or no†question.
I hate to be this guy, but: Um, actually, that is a yes or no question. And the answer is no.
Kevin should walk into the shop on its busiest day and address the owner very loudly…
“Hey, is this the comic you told everyone not to buy in your newsletter? Why do you have a stack of two dozen copies if you don’t think we should buy it? What other comics in here should we not buy? Look at that guy with that huge stack over there…I bet he’s got a few he shouldn’t buy! Why don’t you tell him which ones they are? This is a great store because whenever I read the newsletter, I find out what not to buy! HEY! EVERYONE! Put down your purchases and wait…the owner here is going to come to each of us individually to pull undesirable comics out of our hands and put them back on his shelf! I don’t know why he wants to keep them on his shelf, but this is an invaluable service to us. Over time, it will cause us to develop good taste and also cause us to spend less money in here! Awesome!”
Dimitris – That was pretty much the answer I expected you to give. Thanks anyway.
Whatever, guys. This is quickly starting to feel like a waste of time and effort.
If you feel content living there in your pretty little black and white world, I won’t play the role of the bad guy just because you need one.
Mike, I’m glad that your mind-reading abilities are not limited to knowing everything this particular retailer thinks and does (i.e if he has ordered this book for the shelves or how many copies he has actually ordered – you know, he could be getting this book for his pull list customers only, not bothering to order more than a couple of extra copies), but they also extend to knowing what I’m gonna post before I actually do so.
(You know, you could make thousands of dollars making bets in sports bars, with a talent like this.)
In any case, and just as a final note on this whole shebang, I would probably be in a less attacking mode towards Kevin, if he wasn’t so aggressive -and downright offensive- in his own post. (Not to mention, seriously over-reacting – this is the “stupidest goddamn thing he’s seen lately in the industry”? he’s probably not looking too hard…)
I’m off. Pretend I was never here. You’re good at pretending and make-believe anyway…
You’re not a bad guy. You’re a guy who won’t see that the point is that it’s counterproductive to aggressively alert people to not buy product in your store. Maybe customer service is a unique US based thing but here we cater to a customer base, not try to convince them not to buy our product.
What gets me is the people (regardless of “side”) getting all mad and upset, when the whole thing is, in fact, funny.
Holy shit. This is like The Dark Knight of blog posts. How many records will be shattered before the last comment is posted?
At least one more…this one.
Wow.
I’ll just say it’s funny that people can’t concede a point on the internet. Clearly, it is not good to tell several customers not to buy something you sell. This isn’t a case of “keeping it real” with your customers, it’s common sense.
Comicopia is, indeed, an excellent store. Specifically, they do a great job keeping a wide range of independent titles in stock.
Dimitris, folks! Proving once again that “projection” isn’t just something that happens in movie theaters!
Dimitris has forced me to take a good, long, hard look at how I’ve been spending my life.
My local shop owner will openly say that he hates Superman, for example. But he doesn’t say that in front of customers he’s not already friendly with and he has NEVER criticized the buying habits of his customers.
I can’t think of anything dumber that a shop owner telling people that their taste sucks or that the books they CHOSE to spend their money on are lousy. I’ve had some clerks go through my stack and make comments: crap, crap, great, sucks, awesome, killer, junk, lame, etc. etc.. Suicidal.
Imagine walking into a record store and asking for the new Amy Winehouse record. The store owner replies, “I don’t like Amy Winehouse, so I didn’t stock any.”
Kyle: I’ve been to several of those record stores. Maybe it’s because (part of) my musical tastes lean towards Prog, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “We don’t carry that kind of crap” at record stores.
That said, I like someone who’s honest about ehat they like and don’t like. It makes them feel less like shills and more like people aho are genuinely interested n the subject. That said, the problem with the review above is really only one thing; the phrase “not buy”. “Not for me” would be better, nicer and smarter.
That said, I’m still shocked by how many post-adolescent comics fans still buy stuff like X-Men, so maybe I can sympathize with the review just a tad too much.
Dude…Yanni??
Like commenter tom, wayyyyyy up there, sometimes I buy some pretty silly stuff, like ’80s and ’90s comics that are pure stupid escapism. I know they’re not very good, but they’re fun, and if the guy behind the cash register so much as started to curl his lip at what I was buying (let alone insulted James Kolchaka’s art or said “I wouldn’t buy those”), I’d never go back to that store again.
Of course, I’m always glad to hear an informed, honest assessment of a product, when I ask for it. Guy at the stereo store tells me that the pricier stereo isn’t any better than a cheaper model? That’s cool. Guy at the comic store gives his honest but diplomatic opinion, something like, “Based on what you get, I don’t think you’d enjoy New Avengers”? Also cool. Again, I’m very glad to be told that something I’m considering buying may not be all that great, if I ask about it.
An unsolicited condemnation of a product is not good business practice, no matter how many people try to twist it into being the equivalent of “the honest shopkeeper.”
I just reread the review since I didn’t get Astonishing until a few hours ago and I think it’s flat out wrong. Now that I’m used to Bianchi’s odd costume designs sense and faux cinematic style that wasn’t as problematic. The dialogue and story? Pure Ellis. I can see disliking the book if you’re a Whedon Apologist or Zombie but to any fan of the sharp, smart writing Ellis could probably even do in his sleep it’s pure espaist comics gold. That makes it even more baffling to me that a store owner would try to run off potential customers because the product is really quite good.
It’s kind of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario.
On one hand, if the newsletter were full of nothing but ringing praise you would feel alienated by the lack of sincerity. We’re all smart enough to know when we’re being sold something and when we’re been fed a sales pitch. If the newsletter were noting but an ad… an e-mail flyer, essentially… you would feel that you were pandered to and treated like a passive consumer, merely a target for a hucksterish sales pitch.
On the other hand, absolute conviction doesn’t work in any sales scenario, either. While it’s technically not lying to only highlight your favorite comics, it’s sort of dishonesty by omission. You’re purposely creating the false illusion that your product, by and large, is better than what it really is. However, this is an absolute necessity to good business. Yes, these comic book retailers are businessmen and yes, they should be held to that specific standard. But on the other hand, all businessmen are weasels by their very nature so what can you do?
If they go one way, they’re phonies, if you go the other way, they’re shit salesman whose passion overrides their desire to make money.
The only moral of this story is that capitalism and genuineness are polar opposites and mutually exclusive. If you want to be a good salesman, you have to slightly misrepresent your product (if not flat-out lie, then at least go out of your way to disproportionately emphasize the positive) and if you want to keep it real, you have to suck as a salesman.
There’s no way this guy could satisfy both requirements and I bet dollars to doorknobs everybody would be here bitching and moaning if their inbox were full of cheesy money-grab-style solicitations. It’s popular for internet snark mavens to sneer about having the industry we deserve, but if the comic book industry were truly popular, they’d be whining about the level of falseness the snake-oil peddlers were shilling. Comics pundits have a real love-hate thing going on with the almighty dollar. It’s always the guys who claim to be “art over commerce” that beg for money the hardest or complain the most about lack of profits.
I am ambivalent.
Well, I certainly don’t send out newsletters with comic book reviews, and I can’t say that if I did, that I would put any focus on the negative ones. Still, it is important for comic store owners to have an opinion, because they will be asked their opinion every single day of their lives. Nobody likes a wishy-washy flip-flopper that spouts BS all day just to make sales. People WANT to know that you care, regardless of whether they agree with you or not. For example, anyone who dares ask my opinion on Spider-man these days will know full well of my absolute derision towards that title. Consequently, I don’t sell alot of Spider-man, and I’m okay with that.