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	<title>Comments on: So, hey, I&#8217;m back.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/</link>
	<description>Kevin Church writes things.</description>
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		<title>By: Daily P.O.P.</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4459</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily P.O.P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4459</guid>
		<description>One someone drops the &#039;obtuse&#039; bomb there&#039;s no going back, is there?

I&#039;ll agree to disagree on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One someone drops the &#8216;obtuse&#8217; bomb there&#8217;s no going back, is there?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll agree to disagree on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Church</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4456</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4456</guid>
		<description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;EM&gt;Thereâ€™s always been something about Bendisâ€™ visual storytelling that just seemed off to me- the pacing of images and action seems wrong somehow.&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;
He does it very well a lot of the time on &lt;EM&gt;Ultimate Spider-Man&lt;/EM&gt;, but he also structures it like a very traditional comic book.  (However, I do remember him using the flashback-and-narration thing during the first Venom arc, which I was annoyed with then.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Thereâ€™s always been something about Bendisâ€™ visual storytelling that just seemed off to me- the pacing of images and action seems wrong somehow.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>He does it very well a lot of the time on <em>Ultimate Spider-Man</em>, but he also structures it like a very traditional comic book.  (However, I do remember him using the flashback-and-narration thing during the first Venom arc, which I was annoyed with then.)</p>
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		<title>By: Evan Waters</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4455</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Waters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4455</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s always been something about Bendis&#039; visual storytelling that just seemed off to me- the pacing of images and action seems wrong somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s always been something about Bendis&#8217; visual storytelling that just seemed off to me- the pacing of images and action seems wrong somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Church</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4454</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4454</guid>
		<description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;EM&gt;Actually Grant IS spoon-feeding you the ideas and that is the problem. Batmanâ€™s big gun speech is ALL exposition, for instance. There are very few pieces of dialog in this series that are not moments where the character is telling the reader something that the story should be conveying on its own.&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;There&#039;s a difference between a character telling the audience what they need to know to understand a scene and a overexpository dialogue in which Roy Thomas or Marv Wolfman characters go on about &quot;Oh no this situation is very bad and we will have to band together and fight it and be tough.&quot;  Batman &lt;em&gt;should &lt;/em&gt;be telling the readers about the gun (and again, he&#039;s been shown as a taunting sort by Morrison before,) Braniac 5 &lt;em&gt;should&lt;/em&gt; be talking about the Miracle Machine.  They shouldn&#039;t be telling the readers what&#039;s happening on the page directly.
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;EM&gt;I cannot see how Final Crisis could be viewed as sophisticated, let alone what the comparison could be to David Mamet.  The only writer I can see as being similar to Mamet in his writing is Bendis.&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;And I don&#039;t see how it could be so summarily dismissed.  And I have to say that your second comment sounds like something that someone who&#039;s never looked beyond the dialogue in Mamet&#039;s works would say; Bendis does things that &lt;strong&gt;absolutely betray good storytelling&lt;/strong&gt; time and time again, with the end of &lt;EM&gt;Secret Invasion&lt;/EM&gt; being the most obvious example I can think of - after a series of escalating battles, he mutes the impact of the final conflict by having it be a montage of flashbacks with narration on top, a trick he&#039;s done before and will do again.  
&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;EM&gt;Additionally, readers have been sold on Final Crisis for about two years now that it would impact the entire DCU. How is it now a discrete comic?&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/EM&gt;
Were they?  I don&#039;t read a lot of the hype that either company puts out, so you may well have a point.  And as far as having a point goes - it&#039;s obvious that you&#039;ve got some very well considered opinions about &lt;EM&gt;Final Crisis&lt;/EM&gt; that might be a better fit in your blog versus my haranguing you over what I consider to be deliberate obtuseness on your part.

(And calling a creator you don&#039;t know by their first name is just weird, man.  Don&#039;t do that.  It freaks me out.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Actually Grant IS spoon-feeding you the ideas and that is the problem. Batmanâ€™s big gun speech is ALL exposition, for instance. There are very few pieces of dialog in this series that are not moments where the character is telling the reader something that the story should be conveying on its own.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s a difference between a character telling the audience what they need to know to understand a scene and a overexpository dialogue in which Roy Thomas or Marv Wolfman characters go on about &#8220;Oh no this situation is very bad and we will have to band together and fight it and be tough.&#8221;  Batman <em>should </em>be telling the readers about the gun (and again, he&#8217;s been shown as a taunting sort by Morrison before,) Braniac 5 <em>should</em> be talking about the Miracle Machine.  They shouldn&#8217;t be telling the readers what&#8217;s happening on the page directly.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>I cannot see how Final Crisis could be viewed as sophisticated, let alone what the comparison could be to David Mamet.  The only writer I can see as being similar to Mamet in his writing is Bendis.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>And I don&#8217;t see how it could be so summarily dismissed.  And I have to say that your second comment sounds like something that someone who&#8217;s never looked beyond the dialogue in Mamet&#8217;s works would say; Bendis does things that <strong>absolutely betray good storytelling</strong> time and time again, with the end of <em>Secret Invasion</em> being the most obvious example I can think of &#8211; after a series of escalating battles, he mutes the impact of the final conflict by having it be a montage of flashbacks with narration on top, a trick he&#8217;s done before and will do again.  </p>
<blockquote><p><em>Additionally, readers have been sold on Final Crisis for about two years now that it would impact the entire DCU. How is it now a discrete comic?</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Were they?  I don&#8217;t read a lot of the hype that either company puts out, so you may well have a point.  And as far as having a point goes &#8211; it&#8217;s obvious that you&#8217;ve got some very well considered opinions about <em>Final Crisis</em> that might be a better fit in your blog versus my haranguing you over what I consider to be deliberate obtuseness on your part.</p>
<p>(And calling a creator you don&#8217;t know by their first name is just weird, man.  Don&#8217;t do that.  It freaks me out.)</p>
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		<title>By: Daily P.O.P.</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4452</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily P.O.P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4452</guid>
		<description>Ben, 

We&#039;re not hiring, but we&#039;ll let you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, </p>
<p>We&#8217;re not hiring, but we&#8217;ll let you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Daily P.O.P.</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4451</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily P.O.P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4451</guid>
		<description>Actually Grant IS spoon-feeding you the ideas and that is the problem. Batman&#039;s big gun speech is ALL exposition, for instance. There are very few pieces of dialog in this series that are not moments where the character is telling the reader something that the story should be conveying on its own.

I cannot see how Final Crisis could be viewed as sophisticated, let alone what the comparison could be to David Mamet. The only writer I can see as being similar to Mamet in his writing is Bendis.

Additionally, readers have been sold on Final Crisis for about two years now that it would impact the entire DCU. How is it now a discrete comic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Grant IS spoon-feeding you the ideas and that is the problem. Batman&#8217;s big gun speech is ALL exposition, for instance. There are very few pieces of dialog in this series that are not moments where the character is telling the reader something that the story should be conveying on its own.</p>
<p>I cannot see how Final Crisis could be viewed as sophisticated, let alone what the comparison could be to David Mamet. The only writer I can see as being similar to Mamet in his writing is Bendis.</p>
<p>Additionally, readers have been sold on Final Crisis for about two years now that it would impact the entire DCU. How is it now a discrete comic?</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Birdie</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4450</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Birdie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4450</guid>
		<description>&quot;DC can sell a $4 comic no matter how it has almost double the pages than your average 2.99 comic.&quot;

Fixed it for you.  You might be thinking of Secret Invasion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;DC can sell a $4 comic no matter how it has almost double the pages than your average 2.99 comic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Fixed it for you.  You might be thinking of Secret Invasion.</p>
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		<title>By: Professor Fury</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4446</link>
		<dc:creator>Professor Fury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4446</guid>
		<description>People are seriously complaining about the gun? Hey, remember in &quot;What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?&quot;, when Superman breaks HIS solemn vow and kills Mr. Mxyzptlk, and so he punishes himself by sacrificing his powers? Did we complain about that then? Because I remember that we thought it was kind of awesome. I guess I need to go read some lettercols to refresh my memory and gauge the outrage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People are seriously complaining about the gun? Hey, remember in &#8220;What Ever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?&#8221;, when Superman breaks HIS solemn vow and kills Mr. Mxyzptlk, and so he punishes himself by sacrificing his powers? Did we complain about that then? Because I remember that we thought it was kind of awesome. I guess I need to go read some lettercols to refresh my memory and gauge the outrage.</p>
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		<title>By: Daily P.O.P.</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4445</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily P.O.P.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4445</guid>
		<description>Man will it be embarrassing when this series ends and has no impact on readers at all aside from the fact that it established that DC can sell a $4 comic no matter how bad it is.

Not only is Final Crisis failing to impact the monthly comics, it also can&#039;t even coincide with it&#039;s own mini-series! That is the point of a series like Final Crisis, after all, to impact the entire universe of comics. So, uh... why is that not happening here?

I can only imagine the disappointment from casual Batman fans who bought #7 to &#039;SEE THE FINAL FATE of BATMAN!&#039; as DC directed them to. What a readership killer this one issue is. Convoluted and confused with so many plot threads that none of them can be maintained issue-to-issue, readers are also treated to an absurd death scene that is somehow supposed to relate to Batman R.I.P.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man will it be embarrassing when this series ends and has no impact on readers at all aside from the fact that it established that DC can sell a $4 comic no matter how bad it is.</p>
<p>Not only is Final Crisis failing to impact the monthly comics, it also can&#8217;t even coincide with it&#8217;s own mini-series! That is the point of a series like Final Crisis, after all, to impact the entire universe of comics. So, uh&#8230; why is that not happening here?</p>
<p>I can only imagine the disappointment from casual Batman fans who bought #7 to &#8216;SEE THE FINAL FATE of BATMAN!&#8217; as DC directed them to. What a readership killer this one issue is. Convoluted and confused with so many plot threads that none of them can be maintained issue-to-issue, readers are also treated to an absurd death scene that is somehow supposed to relate to Batman R.I.P.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Church</title>
		<link>http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/so-hey-im-back/2009/01/17/comment-page-1/#comment-4447</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Church</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/?p=5183#comment-4447</guid>
		<description>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;EM&gt;That is the point of a series like Final Crisis, after all, to impact the entire universe of comics. So, uhâ€¦ why is that not happening here?&lt;/EM&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

I think that&#039;s something that fans are assuming more than the actual intent of editorial and Morrison.  FC has been very discrete: it&#039;s not tied into monthly books directly and any of its ancillary material have carried the &lt;EM&gt;Final Crisis&lt;/EM&gt; branding.  &lt;EM&gt;Secret Invasion&lt;/EM&gt; is something designed to create a line-wide event; &lt;EM&gt;Final Crisis&lt;/EM&gt; seems to be designed for its own purposes.  Personally, I prefer the latter, but I can understand how many fans might enjoy the former.

&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;EM&gt;Convoluted and confused with so many plot threads that none of them can be maintained issue-to-issue, readers are also treated to an absurd death scene that is somehow supposed to relate to Batman R.I.P.&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;/EM&gt;
I didn&#039;t find it to be either convoluted or confusing, but that may be because I don&#039;t like it when comics spoon-feed me everything with narration, captions, and expository dialogue.  I like being engaged by a work and getting to piece together some things - it&#039;s something I&#039;ve discussed before, in relation to how &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/morrison-mamet-etc/2008/10/27/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Mamet and Grant Morrison have similar approaches&lt;/a&gt;.  Everything you need to know is on the page, as others have pointed out in these comments.  Putting together some of the elements is a lot of the fun for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>That is the point of a series like Final Crisis, after all, to impact the entire universe of comics. So, uhâ€¦ why is that not happening here?</em></p></blockquote>
<p>I think that&#8217;s something that fans are assuming more than the actual intent of editorial and Morrison.  FC has been very discrete: it&#8217;s not tied into monthly books directly and any of its ancillary material have carried the <em>Final Crisis</em> branding.  <em>Secret Invasion</em> is something designed to create a line-wide event; <em>Final Crisis</em> seems to be designed for its own purposes.  Personally, I prefer the latter, but I can understand how many fans might enjoy the former.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Convoluted and confused with so many plot threads that none of them can be maintained issue-to-issue, readers are also treated to an absurd death scene that is somehow supposed to relate to Batman R.I.P.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>I didn&#8217;t find it to be either convoluted or confusing, but that may be because I don&#8217;t like it when comics spoon-feed me everything with narration, captions, and expository dialogue.  I like being engaged by a work and getting to piece together some things &#8211; it&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve discussed before, in relation to how <a href="http://www.beaucoupkevin.com/blog/morrison-mamet-etc/2008/10/27/" rel="nofollow">David Mamet and Grant Morrison have similar approaches</a>.  Everything you need to know is on the page, as others have pointed out in these comments.  Putting together some of the elements is a lot of the fun for me.</p>
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